Church Fellowship

© 06-08 Born-Again-Christian.info

Topic: It's a Christian cliché: "There's no such thing as the perfect fellowship." So how do you cope with your imperfect fellowship. What problems do you encounter, and how do you overcome them?

What's Your Opinion?

Keep it brief and biblical and we'll publish the best responses. Give us a name to go with your post.

We may edit for spelling and brevity. We do not sell or share your data. Privacy Statement.

Chuck
I have been saved for thirty-five years. I always attended Fundamental Independent Baptist church, but recently my wife and I moved to be close to our daughter and granddaughter. My son-in-law is a Youth Pastor. Their services are different, they keep the preaching area darkish, and employ lots of coloured lights. Instead of a choir and hymnals, they have a band playing electric guitars, drums, and a rock type beat.

They sing about Jesus, but it is just something I am just not used to. The Pastor finally came out and preached a very good message that I was able to learn from. My question is, what about all the rest? I need your input. If I like the message, do I just put up with all the rest. My spirit needs your thoughts. please let me know.

Colin
Chuck, I'm sure this ties in with your recent question about the personal problems your son and his family are facing (not your daughter and Youth Pastor son-in-law).

Consider the situation from your Lord's point of view: He see's you are a sincere Christian, who desperately wants to help your son's family. He also knows that your walk with Him is stunted by the traditions of men, and you are missing several crucial aspects of an effective Christian life.

What does He do? He allows circumstances to develop that bring you together with believers who have what you need. Then He waits for you to repent and learn to use all that He died to give you. That's how it was in the Book of Acts (Ac. 18:24-28), that's how He deals with all His children today.

"Choirs and hymnals" are not going to stop those demons wrecking your son's marriage, nor are guitars and drums; it takes believers filled with Holy Ghost power, who know how to use the authority over the Devil that Christ gave to His followers.

Chuck, it is time to receive the Power Baptism, to claim your Blood bought rights, and for you to learn how to exercise them over your defeated foe.

OW
I am born again, and Spirit filled, as is my husband. He believes we have to tithe on the gross, and it has to be to our local church. Our pastor preaches that if you don't tithe regularly, you cannot minister in helps, and he removed someone from the praise team (not us) for this. Also, my pastor believes if you don't go to an institutional church you are wrong. But what about people who go to a "home church"? Also he says "seeker friendly" churches are wrong. I am thankful for a church to go to, but I don't personally agree with these teachings. I don't argue either.

Also, I believe God has called me (as all of us) to minister to people outside the local church, but all our pastors say you have to minister inside the local church in the "ministry of helps" first. I don't see this in Scripture, although it is a good idea to listen to others, and have some accountability. I want to minister to the unsaved outside the local church. I'm not interested in moving chairs, teaching Sunday school etc., because they tell you what to do every minute, and it's stifling. I have done those kind of things.

I don't want to be in pride, or unsubmissive, but I feel my call is really to encourage hurt Christians, and to share the Gospel with the unsaved. I know they mean well, but these extra rules put me in bondage.

I listen to what I can from the sermons, thank God for the people in the church, but I try to ignore things that don't line up with the Word, and that really feel like bondage. I know it is well intended because this pastor has a good heart.

Is it okay for me to minister freely as God leads; to ignore the stipulation that I "have to" first be "many years" serving in "helps" in a local church? Some people have the gift of helps, but I don't see anywhere in Scripture where it is a progression (ie. the idea is that your pastor or leaders will "promote" you to other ministry, such as preaching, when you are "ready"). Do I need my husband's and pastor's permission to minister to the unsaved? What about ministering without the pastor's "permission" or approval, ie. without asking him, but just trying to follow God?

What about children? Do I need their parents' permission first to share the Gospel with them? One young boy was saved here in our home, and his dad got angry because he had not told his dad he was here; we did not know when he came over that he had not informed his dad where he was. So now I ask the kids who come over to call their parents first thing, and let them know where they are. However, I have not asked the parents' permission specifically to share Jesus with them.

Colin replied
It would be good to hear the pastor's side of this "OW". Perhaps he's had experience of some members proclaiming a dodgy 'Gospel', so he wants to be sure you've got it straight before letting you loose. But of course, Jesus is your Lord, not your husband or pastor, and He has already commanded you to go everywhere with His message, and tell everyone. No dilemma there. Get on with it.

That's a wise way of handling those kids. You could really 'turn the screw' by asking the child to ask their parent on the phone for permission to hear, "What Jesus has done for me Mummy?" If they dare to refuse, respect them, and lovingly send the kid home.

"I'm sorry Johnny, Jesus said children must obey their parents, so I'm afraid I can't tell you what He's done for you today." (What would you want to know if you were that child?)

Marcus
I believe that God has sequestered me for a season into His quiver. This means that I am not in church attendance. Members from a church that I used to attend keep pressuring me, and praying (I sense their soulish prayers). They don't understand what God is doing in my life, and want what they think is right for me. I break the power of soulish prayers, curses and witchcraft against me regularly, so their prayers are of no effect. I am amazed that people don't seek Gods Divine Will for my life before praying what they think is best. This church also seems to deny the Apostolic and Prophetic offices of God at work within the Body of Christ today. Hence they tend to disregard what God is doing in the dark places before He brings them to the light.

OW
This is my personal opinion. I believe if a person is newly-saved it is usually better that they get planted into a good local church. Of course, not all churches are equal. For a mature, seasoned believer, I believe you have to follow your own spirit and let God guide you. I would check it with God, and be willing to go to a church if He tells you to.

However, in my opinion, there are times when a believer is better off out of the institutionalised church for a season, but in that case, he or she should make sure he or she is staying in the Word on their own, and getting some type of fellowship. The danger of course with staying out is that you can tend to think everything you are doing and thinking is okay, and don't have the accountability or check-point of a church. Also sometimes it is harder to hear from other Gifts in the Body when out of church.

On the other hand, the Bible commands us not to forsake fellowship with believers - I don't see where the Bible says the fellowship has to be an institutional church, as we know it today. Some believers go to home churches or meet and fellowship in less traditional ways. I believe God can lead a believer out for a while, sometimes back in, sometimes to a new church. I could be wrong, but that's my current belief.

Colin
When I was saved, I noticed how brief praise and worship was, twenty minutes, and that was it. Even in Spirit-filled fellowships. So wherever I was based, I'd try to find at least two fellowships to worship at, in order to get a double-dose the same day. I still find it astonishing that denominational 'worship' lasts minutes, whereas their dead sermons occupy an hour. Its not like that in the Glory is it?

The great thing about being on the mission field is you can let God have full control. For example, they don't post the 'Service Times' in God's churches in China. Worship, real worship, not mere singing, lasts for hours. You leave when you're full, and if you're still hungry, you stay for more.

OW
I really should be thankful that anyone is out there proclaiming Christ. On the other hand, our spirit in Christ does let us know when something isn't correct. I see that my focus needs to be on the living Christ, His Word, and doing what He tells me to do. Other people aren't necessarily going to understand or approve. I was making other Christians' approval and endorsement like a requirement for stepping out, which becomes an idol. I can't blame others either. I need to love Jesus and start obeying Him regardless of others, and keep loving those people, not get mad at them.

OW
I know that the ministry of helps is Biblical. However, it is very popular in the US born again faith churches to assume, and teach, that everyone who is not in "full time" ministry (ie. five fold), is automatically in the ministry of Helps. So you "graduate" from being in the ministry of Helps, if you obey God, to other ministries.

I'm not saying a church can't choose to be structured this way, but I see no basis in the Bible for this idea. I think God calls some to the ministry of Helps which is equal to someone else being divinely called to the ministry of something else, such as say, pastoring.

I don't see anywhere in the Bible where God actually says that the pastor is "over" the other ministries. You can interpret that the apostle is "over" the others, but that is only because the Bible lists it first. God doesn't actually say that any ministry is "over" any other ministry.

The problem with this is people don't recognize someone is just as called, and anointed, by God to help out, as someone else is to preach. And of course we are all to pray and witness with our lives in love. However, God works through different people in different gifts.

Also it is wrong to expect people to stack chairs while their gifting from God is to go out and evangelize on the street. I think we can all be willing to help out as needed, but it is not for man to place another man or woman in their "job".

And what about this practice of "hiring" a pastor, a youth pastor or other office? I'm not saying it's sinful, but I don't think it is Biblical. Thanks for your input.

Colin
Like you, I see the ministry of helps to be a distinct calling, both in the Word (1 Co. 12:28), and in practice. When you meet someone with this ministry and anointing, it is just as spiritually stunning as when you meet a prophet. I know a dear Chinese lady who probably has no idea there is a "ministry of helps", but she's sure got it. The woman delights in helping Christians, and bears a powerful anointing that gets the job done every time.

As to the "ranking" you mention; Look more closely. 1 Th. 5:12 clearly shows that the leaders are over the fellowship in the Lord. Heb. 13 also echoes this three times. This includes; apostles, pastors, prophets, preachers, evangelists, exhorters, and we are told to respect, and submit to them in love.

"Ahh", you say, "but God doesn't rank one ministry over another." To which I reply, stop and think, if you were a preacher or a prophet, and you read that verse, what would you do? Split hairs over rank, title semantics, and the listed order? Or would you recall Christ's Word to two arguing disciples in Mtt. 23:11-12?

But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Surely that answers all your questions? Remember, He washed the chair-stacker's feet. And recall Stephen, who was a part-time miracle worker, and full-time table waiter. (Ac. 6:3 and 8). What would he say to your questions?

Now have your say